Tuesday, June 2, 2009

Things That Really Aren't That Sexy, Guys

Men are stupid. I think we all recognize that. Men may complain about the double standard at work here - you could never get away with saying "women are stupid" and expect to live to tell the tale, whereas it's quite fashionable in polite society to say that men are stupid -- but in my view, this is double standard is awesome. After thousands of years of it being de rigeur to presume women aren't intelligent enough to vote, lead, hunt, smoke tobacco, wear pants, etc., now the reasonable and unrestrictive shoe is on the other foot. And in my view, the shoe belonged on that foot in the first place.

Here's just one way in which men prove their stupidity. They convince themselves that certain things are sexy that really aren't. I'm not talking about fetishes, which are up to the individual -- I'm talking about deep-seated turn-ons that are fundamentally wrong-headed. These are the ones in which only men's own delusions are to blame:

1. Lesbians are not sexy. I mean, they're sexy to other lesbians. And individual lesbians can be plenty attractive - I'm not saying as a whole that they aren't nice-looking folks. I'm saying that there's nothing inherent about a woman who prefers other women that should in any way turn a man on.

In fact, quite the opposite -- by definition, a lesbian is someone who isn't interested in guys. This definition should be a sign to guys that two lesbians together = sorry, dude, you're not wanted here; please try somewhere else. But for some reason, this situation turns men on more, apparently.

I thought of this recently (and this whole post, for that matter) as I read a column written by a woman who talked about a date she had with another woman. They were approached by a man, and when they made it clear that they were on a date, he did not say, "oh, sorry, I guess I'm not needed here then. I will now go over there." Instead, he said, "Wow, that's even hotter. Since you are both exclusively interested in women, you must want me, a man, all the more," or something to that effect. I found his reaction predictable but stunningly counter-intuitive and moronic.

Maybe this idea that lesbians are sexy to men was created by the porn industry? Perhaps it's better to watch to women going at it because you don't have to watch some repulsive guy in the mix. But porn can only appeal to men's stupidity -- it can't create it out of whole cloth.

I think the reason for this baffling attraction is the principle at the center of most men's sexuality, which is a horribly unwarranted and stultifyingly high level of self-confident myopia. Me and my needs are at the center of the world, they seem to think, so anything sexual going on is somehow for my benefit. Bar skanks capitalize on this by kissing in public, but the root of it is the bizarre subconscious notion that lesbians might be doing their thing for the benefit of men. And of course the very opposite is true: They're doing it because they're sexually repelled by men. I'm guessing women don't get hot at seeing two men kissing. If one or both of the men were attractive to them, I would presume they'd be disappointed by that.

Maybe men assume that lesbians must be more promiscuous, because, dude, she's so horny she's willing to do it with another woman! Which is of course, infinitely insulting to and delusional about gay people. I don't know; I think there are probably layers of this particular delusion that I can't even fathom.

2. Identical twins are not sexy. Again, individual twins may be plenty attractive, and I suppose since they're identical, then both would have to be similarly attractive. But there's nothing inherent to identical twins that should make them any more attractive than two female friends who are both attractive.

I heard about this one through a Coors Light commercial that listed all the things that guys supposedly love. At one point it went "And TWIIIIINS!!!" and showed two identical blonde chicks straight out Central Casting for Allegedly Attractive Women. I was baffled, and it took me a long time to figure this out.

Again, it's rooted in the male tendency to think everything is somehow sexual, for their benefit. Most people look at identical twins and think "Oh, weird" and then move on with their lives. I tend to look at them and say "Oh my God, clones!!!! It has occurred! Some kind of evil plot that you find in sci-fi shows, which I haven't exactly figured out the details of at this moment, but regardless, it's scary!"

But men apparently look at clones, I mean, uh, identical twins, and think "menage a trois!" They seem to think that because twins are freakishly similar-looking, they would thus want to engage in a three-way with fat, shlubby, beer-swilling losers. Which I sincerely doubt. I don't know why two identical twins would want to share that most private of human activities any more than regular sisters would, and I think regular sisters really, really, really, really would not. That's gross. That's incest, basically. That's kind of a taboo, guys, and a good one. I'm guessing you wouldn't want to have sex with one woman along with your brother. I bet he would piss you off in the middle of it by making a really annoying noise and then you'd start fighting and then that would turn to wrestling and then you would officially be gay.

3. Women with 0% body fat are not sexy. This is of course a familiar one, fraught with discussion and controversy, and has been a problem for decades. Models tend to be rail-thin and harsh-looking. It's a terrible role model for young girls and probably a cause of many eating disorders. The fashion industry tries to defend this by saying that clothes look best on thin people -- well, maybe that's because you only make clothes for thin people, smart guy. Maybe it would break new, exciting ground to make clothes for more than one body type. Shocking, I know.

A side issue to all this is that it all seems especially pointless since extremely thin women are not attractive. They're often painful to look at, in fact. They look either like corpses or like pubescent girls or boys, and if you think that's sexy, well, I have a jail cell with your name on it. Women are better when they actually look different from men, when they have curves.

This is not just me mouthing off -- this preference for curves is actually hard-wired into male brains, and has been for millenia. There's evidence of this wiring in the primate kingdom: In many monkey species, the females signal the fact that they are in heat, or "estrus," and can thus conceive, by having their breasts and butts swell up. This demonstrates that they have the excess caloric intake to be physically able to bring a baby to term. It's a sign of health. Humans are unique in that we don't have an estrus period, and can always conceive, and thus human women's curves are permanent year-round.

So why would men be more attracted to women who are terribly thin? Wouldn't that be a sign of unhealthiness? Maybe, in a sick, twisted subconscious way, that's what they want. Maybe they want a woman who can't conceive, as many anorexics can't because they don't have enough body fat. Maybe it's also a form of control, in that their extreme and difficult-to-attain preferences are meant to force women to work very hard to maintain a certain "ideal."

Many women are now getting so thin that they have visible muscles. They have ripped abs and biceps and stuff. I suppose there's nothing wrong with that if that's your choice, and you could say it's a signal of female strength. But to me, it makes women look awfully mannish. I don't want women to look like men. I'm not attracted to men. Maybe the preference for extremely thin women is a manifestation of some sort of latent homosexuality.

I'm throwing a lot of theories out there because this one is especially pervasive and especially confusing. This one's so pervasive that I think there are probably tons of causes. Another idea I've heard is that it's a class thing, that only wealthy women have the time and resources to maintain a very thin frame, while lower-class women have to spend their time working at desks and eating whatever they can whenever they can.
And signals of class membership change over time, of course. Back in the days of Rubens (that porn merchant), plumper women tended to be wealthier and were considered more sexy. They, like the monkeys in estrus, had the resources to be able to maintain some extra body fat. And in those days, it was more desirable and more rare to have the ability to carry a baby to term.

I don't know -- there are thousands of interlocking issues here. Any thoughts from the peanut gallery?

15 comments:

pettigrj said...

Peanut Gallery Thought No. 1:

Thanks a bunch, Ed. I'd spent the last four years of my life blissfully forgetful of that stupid, stupid beer commercial jingle. That really is one of my top ten least favorite commercials of all time. Ugh...I'm shuddering right now, thinking about it. I get really depressed about the progress of the human race when I remember that ad.

Amy Mancini said...

I'm really glad you brought up the twins thing, Ed. That's baffled me for the same reason for a long time. Who would want to engage in anything sexual with their sibling? And who would want to engage in anything sexual with someone who would engage in anything sexual with a sibling?

Hot twin guys are fairly rare, but I do remember a pair from Carleton. I never, never thought about how great a 3-way would be with them. Never. In fact (setting aside the fact that I didn't actually know them and wasn't interested in trying), it seemed weird to think about having a crush on one of them because there was a carbon copy right there...how do you decide which one? Not to bash twins. I mean, they can't help being twins, but the twin thing is just plain weird.

The anorexia thing is difficult to untangle, too. I once heard that fashion designers wanted models who made clothes look like they were hanging on hangers. If they wanted to show off their clothes on a hanger, why not just use a hanger? Much cheaper.

emily said...

Here are my thoughts on the issues at hand:
1-Lesbians are sexy because of what you discussed. Since men generally want to watch women naked and sexual, lesbians allow a man to not only watch 2 women naked and sexual, but 0 men. The idea that no sex is complete without some penis is partly influenced by porn, partly by our cultural definition of sex. The pervasive belief that lesbians are super hot escapes me however. I think men are generally impressionable and can be led to believe that lots of things are hot that are not. I recommend the book, "Bonk" by Mary Roach. She talks about a study in which men can be trained in a pavlovian manner to be aroused by inanimate objects. Women do not have this ability, which may explain why men are generally a lot more kinky and develop fetishes more easily.
2-Twins. Gross. I blame doublemint gum. If sex with a blonde is awesome, sex with blonde twins = awesome x 2! I also blame Coors, of course. I boycotted Coors for about 10 years after that ad. They also put up a huge billboard near my house in Portland with twins (my friends and I all sent them letters about how gross it was) and they would send girls who looked alike to bars to pretend they were twins. It was out of control. My hypothesis: Twins are sort of not individuals, they are kind of one person split into two. So having sex with them would be like doing two sexual acts at the same time with the same person? I don't know. I don't think Coors drinkers are really thinking things through.
3-Skinny people: I don't actually think men like really skinny women. Sure, they like relatively in-shape women (back on the plains, people with a normal BMI now were probably very well fed), but most men don't like fashion models, they like victoria's secret models. The fashion models are more a cultural beauty standard than a sexiness standard, I think. Another thing I have noticed is that men (based on watching TV commercials) seem to like extremes, like really exaggerated women. Women with really skinny waists, and huge breasts. At least for the women on TV, maybe not so much in real life. Another thought I had is that thinness might represent youth. As most women know, the 20s are generally a thinner decade than the 30s and on.
It also just generally seems strange for men to be so hung up on looks, evolutionarily speaking. Shouldn't they basically think all women are hot? Why are human women like peacocks, expected to live up to unrealistic physical standards? Is this maybe a mechanism to keep men from settling down with any one woman? It seems very strange to me.

Chris E. Keedei said...

Looks like we can all agree that the twins thing is just plain bizarre and awful. And I don't think it's really that prevalent, luckily. But I have to disagree with Emily about whether men like really skinny women -- problem is, they certainly appear to. I'm constantly seeing women on TV that look painfully thin but are portrayed as being attractive. Angeline Jolie, I think, looks painfully thin a lot of the time. She has boobs but the rest of her is stick figure-ish.

Chris E. Keedei said...

You know else makes me wince? Kelly Ripa. She looks older than her years because she's too thin. Cadaverous. And there are plenty of Real Housewives who have this problem but I won't bother with them because no one here knows them.

Chris E. Keedei said...

Another thing about Angelina Jolie -- sometimes, the lips look fake. I don't think they are, but they are a bit ridiculous. In some pictures, granted, she can look like the most gorgeous woman in the world. From others, she can look like a grotesque clown. All right, that's enough already.

Chris E. Keedei said...

But anyway, as Emily points out, this is all superficial talk, about looks and everything. I just think it's interesting to stay on the superficial level but still disagree with the prevailing superficialities.

emily said...

I think women like Angelina Jolie more than men do. Nobody men I know find her terribly attractive. She used to be a lot more attractive, before she got all skeletal. This seems to happen to a lot of so-called sex symbols. Lindsey Lohan, Madonna, Teri Hatcher, they all get really crazy skinny to stay attractive, when everyone thought they were a lot more attractive when they were normal looking.
I just think all of the magazines that tell us who is sexy doesn't really reflect the tastes of the opposite sex, but is warped by Hollywood standards. I don't think that many men are really into these women. Men are more into Kim Kardashian and a host of other women I have never heard of because I don't read Maxim.
Sometimes it seems as though women are more into skinny women. As to why that is, I have no idea. Maybe what you mentioned earlier, a skinny woman has self control and time and money. That could definitely explain the Real Housewives. They stay skinny to show status more than to stay attractive for men.
I definitely don't mind discussing superficiality, it is very interesting, in fact. Humans are really interesting in their superficiality ( I guess a lot of animals are) I find it particularly interesting that (a) what is considered sexually attractive is so influenced by culture and that (b) for most animals, the males are the pretty ones trying so hard to attract a mate, while with humans it seems to be opposite. I don't know what that means, but it is interesting.

emily said...

Just to clarify, I agree that even the women on TV that men do like (again, all of this is based on other TV programs that tell me what men like) are still too skinny. My point was just that men don't seem to like the absolute skinniest.

Amy Mancini said...

That pavlovian man fetish thing is fascinating. If you've ever read up on Chinese foot-binding (google it if you haven't. You can get caught up quickly and there are some photos), you'll know that back when it was commonly done, Chinese men found these strange, pointed feet incredibly erotic. I think there's a written record of 40+ things a man could do with the feet during sex or something. Keep in mind, too, that bound feet had a huge cleft in the sole that was ripe with odor and fungus. And sometimes women would put money in the clefts in their feet. But I'm digressing...Anyway, poor men. Of course, maybe we should be hopeful that we could all train men to find things that really are sexy sexy. But maybe that's too ambitious.

I've been curious about the fascination with A. Joile for awhile. She seems to be a so-so actress who picks so-so movies. I really think it's the lips. If she didn't have the lips, no one would really care.

Amy Mancini said...

well, and the babies, too.

steph said...

Octomom has big lips and babies. Are men fascinated with her? ha ha ha.

Ed, it's funny you mentioned Kelly Ripa. I thought she looked really good until about this year. Now I think she looks older than she is AND way too buff.

I love superficial talk. It's so fun.

pettigrj said...

Here's the deal on überskinniness. There are two sets of attractive women in the heterosexual Anglo-American world. One set is the women that men find attractive. The other is the set of women that other women find attractive.

The latter set is found in Cosmopolitan, Vanity Fair, TMZ, OMG!, and other media consumed primarily by women. This set is characterized by not eating, weird clothes, and anxiety.

The former set is found in Maxim, real life, and Tractors Unlimited, and is characterized by looking normal, eating occasionally, and/or being a tractor.

The two sets appeal to different groups. There can be some overlap, but such overlap tends to happen when a woman is in the process of moving from one set (the men-attractive) to the other (the women-attractive), or vice-versa.

The girl from Desperate Housewives who used to be on the Superman tv show, for example. Men look at her now and say, "Oh, she used to be pretty, but now she's too skinny and stuff." Women look at her and say, "Oh, she must be prettier now than she used to be, because I can no longer look like her without first developing an eating disorder." Fashion people look at her and say, "Darling, we'd love to do a shoot with you, but we can only count 80% of your ribs. Come see us when you're completely rib-countable, and we'll do lunch. And by lunch we mean not eating anything."

And to address Emily's point about peacocks, I think she answered it herself later on. I don't think that women are peacocks for men - they're peacocks for each other, while the guys are on the sidelines going, "Dude, stop being a peacock. I think you look better when you're not a peacock."

The unanswered question swirling around all of this is why do women perpetuate the unhealthy ideal, when men prefer healthy-looking women? What's the psycho-physiological deal with that?

Chris E. Keedei said...

Yeah, this is the main aspect that
I totally missed in my post, and that I would edit my post to include if I weren't so damn lazy. There is a different version of sexy women to hetereosexual men and to heterosexual women. As to why heterosexual women seem to be more attracted to emaciated people, I think it's the thing Emily referred to, of skinniness being a symbol of status. If you're able to be all cadaverous, that means you have the resources and time to work extremely hard to look that terrible. The whole society values thinness, but the quest for thin is taken to a perverse extreme in certain status-centric circles by a sort of arms-race effect. It's perpetuated by TMZ and OMG! and LOL! and BFF! and SNAFU! and all the rest of it because they do a profile on Nicole Richie called "Wow! How Does She Get So Skeletal?!?!?"

steph said...

Joe, I'm impressed that you know of TMZ!